Simon Templar

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Posts by Simon Templar

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  46

  The Elders are Coming Help!

  by LaurenM in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so the elders keep bugging me and pestering me about having a meeting with them to "introduce me to my new congregation" for some reason (do any ex elders know what that even means??).

  i keep postponing and making excuses and they are getting more and more aggressive.

  i finally agreed for them to come over today, but really don't want to..should i hide from them again?

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  Simon Templar

  This is some kind of "search and destroy" thing that they have going on at the moment. They know if they are persistent, and they meet with you, you have agreed, become a "known" publisher/member with some level of contact by them and their control. If you don't want that, and are trying to fade, don't meet with them. Just call and postpone. Don't reschedule, if that's what you want. Don't let them know you or have a condition where they can just come to your house because you are a "member".
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  27

  Why didn't Jehovah know the flood wouldn't work?

  by OverlappingGeneralizations in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this has been something that is bugging me lately-.

  jehovah is all knowing.

  he knows that to do away with evil, he has to do away with satan.

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  Simon Templar

  I think that his objective was the short term only and that it is an example of what he can/will do (if I remember the application correctly). Take it from there.
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  42

  How Many JWs Really Believe Everything They Are Told?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think that 80% of jws do not truly believe in what they are taught .

  the vast majority stay in because of family, friends, ignorance and a lack of caring about any of the facts regarding the "truth".

  many people are lazy.

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  Simon Templar

  In my Congo there are many elderly, and many late-middle aged ones. We have people in the truth since 1940s and 1950s in our Congo. Almost all of them don't believe much of what is "the truth" anymore, or pick and chose selected parts of what they will go along with. That's what they tell me at any rate.

  One common thread between all of them is that they have been in the truth so long, they can't get out. It is too emotionally engrained in them, they can't let go. So they are actually "out", in their inner mind, but can't escape physically. There are too many "tentacles" that tie them to the religion. Their kids are gone in many cases but they are still "in". They say and do whatever they want because they are too old to really care anymore. They have been "in" so long they don't even know how to do anything wrong and be thrown out, so that's not a danger to them anymore. They are getting vocal about things. The Watchtower study has had a few "unorthodox" comments from them recently. The Elders are getting nervous calling on some of them. They are all mad about doing what they were told throughout their life and now at age 70-80 years old not having the money or normal amount of wealth (as their peers have) to live. They feel that they have been lied to. My Wife feels the same way, but I have taken care of the money end, so we don't worry about that as the others do. The WTB&TS created this situation and they will have to come up with the solution or it will boil over really soon.
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  20

  Passionless loveless JW.ORG. How? Why? My experience with these Pharasees.

  by Witness 007 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so i studied with this guy who is now an elder in my moms hall.

  she has cancer and is black and blue from it.

  we are like real family so i invite him over for drinks and pizza.

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  Simon Templar

  This kind of behavior is status quo.

  My Wife had pneumonia last winter. She didn't attend a meeting for five weeks. She finally gets to a meeting. The Secretary sees her and says, "I am missing a field service report from you. Please give it to me tonight before you leave". He didn't have a clue. My wife told all the sisters via phone she was sick. No brother asked her how she was.

  I had a very serious potentially life-threatening illness. I was home from the hospital. The Bethelite was hanging around the Congo for the day, and called my house (around dinner time) and asked if he could come over and visit. My wife held the phone and asked me. I said no. She told him no. I returned to the meeting a few weeks later. I saw him at the meeting. He never asked how I was. I guess no free food was connected with me at the time.

  This is just a few of many situations like this. Its constant. None of the brothers will inquire of your health, unless its to give you a work assignment and they see you cant walk or something.
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  49

  Dont Give Them More Power Than They Deserve

  by Tech49 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a new montra that was recently adopted by the wife and i is this:.

  dont give them more power than they deserve.. here's why i say that, and i point this to those of you still in the congregation, still trying to decide what you want to do.. recently, our family had a little family reunion gathering of sorts, and we were in the company of some extended family that were either df or da, to varying degrees.

  we made it very clear, to any and all in attendance, that we wanted to be respectful and kind, despite any previous perceptions about our "status".... and that our feelings on a lot of things had "softened", and "changed" over the last 2 years.. i am being purposefully slightly vague, but i think you get the point.

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  Simon Templar

  I agree with your handling of things. We have done things a little bit differently.

  1. I told who I had to no more TMS, microphones, etc. I stopped that all myself.

  2. I deleted myself in between CO visits. The presiding overseer (then) told me it was okay for me to attend the KM school anyhow, because the CO said it was okay. No announcement has been made yet. I told him (and the body) what I would be doing. That's the announcement as far as I am concerned.

  3. When one of the Elders sees me at the KH and tells me that he and another Brother want to talk with me, I ask "Is this about a judicial matter?" They tell me no. Then I tell them, "I would prefer not to meet, but thank you for the invitation." It ends there.

  The fact that they have no control or power over me drives them crazy.
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  19

  Can a baptism be annulled?

  by angel.face in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i joined this site about 4 years ago and life was very different to say the least.

  i was a jw and started the process of 'waking up' after experiencing life threatening blood loss due to complications of a pregnancy.

  i was married with two kids (husband was an ms) and was a stay-at-home mom.

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  Simon Templar

  I have thought about this subject many times.

  I think that someone (who has some money and can find a lawyer to represent them) should make a test case out of it. There are many grounds to seek an "annulment", such as: 1) Being baptized as a minor. An imprudent decision which now must change. 2) The differing questions that have been asked at the baptism event. The longer you are baptized, the less stringent the questions are that you agreed to. These have now changed and are no longer valid. If you didn't answer the questions that day, you didn't agree to anything. 3) Changing doctrine. This is the main one I believe. Depending on when a person was baptized, it can be proved that the current "doctrine" either in general or on specific subjects is markedly different than when the "truth was learned" and baptism decided on and performed. "its not now what I signed-up for". Now the doctrine is different, the person no longer agrees with it, and wants his/her "dedication" and "membership" rescinded without punishment because the "church" modified and changed it's doctrine and in some cases it's belief system, and the other party (you) wants out of the agreement because of these large changes which you do not agree with and do not believe as true. If you are old enough, 1975 should be the centerpiece of that argument along with blood and several other topics.

  There is no question that this is a different religion in philosophy and practice than it was in 1950, or 1960 or 1970, etc. The religion goes through constant evolutionary, doctrinal and belief modification. This is now inconsistent with what you "signed-on for" (like the end of the world coming before you got out of high school as an example) and you want the entire matter cancelled/annulled, etc. I think a smart Lawyer would want a run at that depending on the country/state/province that you live in. The litigation cost/exposure may make the WTB&TS just settle with you by giving you an annulment just to dispose of the case. Imagine the media getting a hold of a litigation like this and saying "this person needed to sue the religion to get an annulment so their Mother and Father would just keep on speaking to them. They are that controlling!"
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  19

  Too Much Discontent in the Congregation Part 3

  by Simon Templar in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  now, 80-85 years later, we are still here.

  if i was to do the counsel with a brother who had this much experience, i would have just thanked him for doing the talk, and marked him good on the point.

  this is a good way to get money though.

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  Simon Templar

  Here is part 3

  My congregation is one that is filled with mainly older people. Many have been in the truth 50-70 years. People who were little kids in the congregation in 1945 and received a copy of “The Kingdom is at Hand” and also remember the “Let God Be True” books when they were current. Here is how they are treated and what some are doing/saying now.

  At the Watchtower Study yesterday, in one of the paragraphs in the middle of the study, the whole study was related to faith, one elderly Sister made the following comment: “My Mother and Father (both of the anointed, by the way) were in great expectation of the end coming at any moment back when they were alive. They could smell the fire/smoke and the end of everything. That’s how I was raised. We were told that the end is upon us. Now, 80-85 years later, we are still here. We know that none of that happened. We don’t know when it will happen, and are still waiting.” Her meaning I think was that we all have faith and are still waiting. The Watchtower conductor (the Bethelite) just put his head down, shook it slightly and didn’t say a word other than “Thank You”. I thought to myself, it’s the truth. Who can really say anything? Apparently it is bothering some of these people so much they can’t hold it in any longer. Many in the congregation think the same.

  I over hear a lot in the KH just walking around after the meeting and listening. A Brother I know is in the truth his entire life. He has white hair and is no longer a spring chicken. He was an elder for many years. He just decided to stop being an elder due to several things, the main one being his health. The elders won’t talk to him anymore. Only one or two of them say hello periodically. He gave a great five minute talk up-front in the school recently. After the meeting, the school overseer was doing the counsel and asked the Brother if he did the “exercise”. This Brother was giving talks before there were any exercises, or the school overseer was in the truth. The school overseer told him “you will have to work on the point again if you didn’t do the exercise”. The Brother said that he did the exercise and they moved on. If I was to do the counsel with a Brother who had this much experience, I would have just thanked him for doing the talk, and marked him “good” on the point. A little respect please for someone that has been around the truth that long (about 65 years). Please don’t talk to him like a child. Talk about being put to the curb.

  Here is a good one. The Coordinator (speaks English very, very poorly) got up on the platform a short while ago at the beginning of the service meeting and read a letter. We were all looking at one another not knowing really what he said. I did pick up something about extra money for the Society. At the end of what he read he spoke for a few seconds. A few people raised their hands. This was insufficient. So he repeated what he had previously said. Apparently, this was put to a vote for the second time. Many more people put up their hands. A pioneer Sister that is a friend, sent me a message on my phone, “What did we just vote for?” I didn’t know. I asked my wife. She wasn’t sure, and thought some kind of expenses. After the meeting, I asked around and was told that it was to add some additional money to the monthly amount being sent to the Society. The people that I talked to couldn’t tell me exactly what it was for. Obviously, they passed the course on jibberish and could understand some of it. I didn't. This is a good way to get money though. Nobody knew what they were doing.

  A sister that I know very well, since she was a young girl, is now married and has been faithful in the truth for over 50 years. She told me that she wouldn’t talk to the elders about anything and wanted to speak with me. I am the only person (male) that she can trust. I told her okay. She went into a rant and indicated that she is furious that she “signed-on” when she was young and was told that if she wasn’t baptized she would die when Armageddon comes. Almost everything that that she was taught and heard at the meetings about the “end” didn’t happen. No one knows when the “end” will come. Jesus said he didn’t know when it would be. How would the Watchtower? It was guaranteed to her that the “end” is coming now (this is 50 years ago). Now in 2015, she and everyone else is supposed to be “in expectation of it”. She told me that she has had enough. She can’t listen to anymore speculation on the “time of the end”. She has been told for half a century that it is coming at any minute. Don’t get educated, or do anything to improve your life because it will all be over soon, etc. I am giving you the short version of this. It was rough. I calmed her down. She really feels betrayed but is okay now. I am sure that there are many more that feel the same as she does. She is a good person.

  I have more to relate and will do so in following posts.
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  73

  CO in midwest gets pink-slipped

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i saw the coordinator heading for the stage and hit record on my ipad.

  i was shocked but here it is.

  here's my typed transcript of the letter he read:.

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  Simon Templar

  I know William Redd and his wife. Really nice people. William is one of the few COs that you could speak to without stress and worry. A really good guy.
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  37

  A question about fading....

  by Tornintwo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i understand that many on this forum are undertaking a slow fade, over months, years even.. can i ask what is the benefit of that instead of a fast fade?.

  as i understand it, the elders only have to deal judicially with people who are still active witnesses, known in the community as witnesses, having contact and influence with witnesses etc.

  so surely the sooner you stop attending meetings the better.

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  Simon Templar

  A slow fade will allow you to be seen around the KH and do little or nothing. Drop out of the school, a little FS time, keep it below 7 hours and they wont let you "touch the utensils", attend meetings once in a while be friendly but not open to anyone. Do that for a while and the BOE and the rank and file will categorize you in their head as a "0". They won't think about you or expect anything from you. Then one day you can disappear, never to return and nobody will realize it. Furthermore, most of them will not care.
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  121

  No more printing of WT and Awake in my country.. Shit just got real

  by cognitivedizzy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  guys .

  a letter was just read in out kh stating that all printing of wt and awake is ceased for the coming year and we will just place tracts on fs, countries which were cared by our branch will be cared by other countries...along with this they read the new fs form and stuff about reporting links of videos wtf..lol.

  i can't tell which country perhaps that will give away a lot, any one with a similar information.

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  Simon Templar

  Can somebody get a copy of this letter that was read aloud at the meeting?